<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Hi Chris,<br>
<br>
Yeah, I thought this might be the case. I was kind of hoping this
may be a way to go under the radar! Come the revolution....<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Jamie<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/05/16 15:31, Christian Gütschow
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:185BA900-F565-4A83-8C69-A0058A980964@cern.ch"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Hi Jamie,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I understand your point completely, but
unfortunately the foot soldiers will get in trouble if we make
these run cards public without seeking approval first.
Collaboration policies and all that -- I’m afraid you're gonna
have to redirect your complaint towards the ATLAS management.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">For now, we have to rely on this being sufficiently
described in the paper. I understand this hasn’t always been
done properly in past, which is one of the reasons why this time
(for Run 2, that is) we have aimed to document the MC setup (and
the employed tunes) as much as possible in dedicated pub notes.
I appreciate that this isn’t optimal either, but I hope it will
still improve the situation.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Cheers,</div>
<div class="">Chris</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 6 May 2016, at 15:08, Jamie Tattersall <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tattersall@physik.rwth-aachen.de" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tattersall@physik.rwth-aachen.de">tattersall@physik.rwth-aachen.de</a></a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Hi
Christian,<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks for the quick reply.<br class="">
<br class="">
One point just to emphasise is that the results can
change significantly depending on Monte Carlo tunes and
param card choices. I want to emphasise this because
just saying 'Pythia 6' is really not enough. I want to
make this clear because I know from SUSY examples,
different choices of for example the matching scale
produce completely different results.<br class="">
<br class="">
This is why it would be so good to include the actual
monte carlo cards as well.<br class="">
<br class="">
Cheers,<br class="">
Jamie<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/05/16 14:58,
Christian Gütschow wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:C3D20757-6BB6-4D85-96CF-B3B97D66B1F1@cern.ch"
type="cite" class=""> Hi Jamie,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">just to comment:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">My particular interest was
actually in ATLAS_2013_I1190187 as we could
never reproduce the p_T(lep lep met)
distribution and I just saw that there was
now a rivet implementation. We were not the
only theory group that had this issue but we
could never really get to the bottom of it
(even after correspondance with ATLAS).
Unfortunately (unless I've missed something)
it seems like the file here only contains
the data and not the validation.<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Unfortunately this one was submitted
already ~2 years ago, i.e. a long time before we
got accustomed to submitting validation plots
along with the routines.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">That said, if a routine has already
been used to produce the curves in the paper,
then we usually don’t produce separate
validation plots and only submit the
routine/reference data even today.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">In general, we would love to see
as much as possible! Histograms, with the
data vs monte carlo is the obvious one. I've
just had a random look through some of the
analyses present and stumbled across
ATLAS_2015_I1351916. I guess the plots here
are just what we are looking for but
particularly important for us is to also
know exactly which Monte-Carlo was used (I
have to admit that I haven't dug up the
paper so perhaps this is made clear here).
In any case, it would be very useful to have
the information contained in the validation
directory.<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">That’s a good point, I shall make a
mental note to check that this information is
provided somewhere in the legend. For this
particular case, we used a Pythia6 sample for
the validation, which I think is described in
the paper, but I see your point: an informative
legend entry won’t hurt. :-)</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">Cheers,<br class="">
</div>
</div>
Chris</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">On 05/05/16 21:06, Andy Buckley
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">On 05/05/16
19:28, Jamie Tattersall wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Hi Andy,<br
class="">
<br class="">
This is potentially a very stupid
question..... but where do I find<br
class="">
validation material (i.e plots) for the
Rivet analyses? (I've been<br class="">
clicking for a while now but not got
anywhere).<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
Hi Jamie,<br class="">
<br class="">
Good question! This is probably something
that we should make a systematic point of
putting online. For the last year or so,
we have managed to get the experiments to
supply validation plots along with the
code, and those plot sets are in the
tarballs at<br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.hepforge.org/archive/rivet/contrib/"
class="">https://www.hepforge.org/archive/rivet/contrib/</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
For a lot of the SM ones, there are also
fairly up-to-date comparisons against
modern generators at <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://mcplots.cern.ch/"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mcplots.cern.ch/">http://mcplots.cern.ch/</a></a><br
class="">
<br class="">
But we don't yet have a repository of e.g.
generator comparisons to all plots on the
Rivet website. It is something that we
could add, though... just putting our new
nightly validation outputs on the website
for example.<br class="">
<br class="">
I guess that you are more interested in
the BSM analyses, though. What sort of
validation would you like to see for
those? As you know, they haven't been a
major emphasis so far, but that is
changing so any input is welcome!<br
class="">
<br class="">
Andy<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
Rivet mailing list<br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rivet@projects.hepforge.org"
class="">Rivet@projects.hepforge.org</a><br
class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet">https://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet</a><br
class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"
class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"
class="">
<div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""><br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""> —</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""> Dr. Christian Gütschow</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""> TU Dresden</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""> Institut für Kern- und
Teilchenphysik</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""> Zellescher Weg 19</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""> 01069 Dresden</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""> > at CERN: 104-02-C02</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""> > at IKTP: E17, ASB<span
style="font-family: Verdana,
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
font-size: 11px;" class=""> </span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: arial, sans-serif;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;"
class=""> > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:chris.g@cern.ch">chris.g@cern.ch</a></div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline"
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;">
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""><br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""> —</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""> Dr.
Christian Gütschow</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""> TU
Dresden</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""> Institut
für Kern- und Teilchenphysik</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""> Zellescher
Weg 19</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""> 01069
Dresden</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""> > at
CERN: 104-02-C02</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""> > at
IKTP: E17, ASB<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif; font-size: 11px;" class=""> </span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family:
arial, sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;" class=""> > <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chris.g@cern.ch" target="_blank"
style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204);" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chris.g@cern.ch">chris.g@cern.ch</a></a></div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="color: rgb(0,
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>