<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Andy et al<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">thanks a lot for your positive reply.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Yes, sure Rivet is not using data, I meant when it comes to calculating chi2 or goodness-of-fit.</div><div class="">And yes, it is exactly what we want to discuss, how to standardize the correlation matrix to be put</div><div class="">on hepdata, such that it can be used easily in Rivet for calculating chi2. </div><div class="">Sorry, if it was not clear, what I meant.</div><div class="">So, it would be great, if someone from Rivet could participate, perhaps tomorrow is not so important,</div><div class="">as we just start, but it would be great if we have this discussion in close contact.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks a lot</div><div class="">Cheers</div><div class="">Hannes</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 3. May 2018, at 11:14, Andy Buckley <<a href="mailto:andy.buckley@cern.ch" class="">andy.buckley@cern.ch</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Hi Hannes,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">This is something we're very interested in, and I would be happy to participate in general although am indisposed at the critical time tomorrow (maybe someone else from the "team" can join?) We're also following this up in the context of other measurements and searches.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">But I think there's a misunderstanding in saying that Rivet uses uncorrelated data uncertainties. Other than for plotting cosmetics, Rivet doesn't use data uncertainties at all: they only come in downstream when computing goodness of fit or other likelihood measures. Do you mean that the reference data files in Rivet do not separate error classes or encode correlations?: this is true, but not fundamental. What's needed is parallel development for a) HepData to output the correlation breakdown in a standardised way which can be automatically identified with the relevant histograms, and b) for YODA's Scatter types to support multiple error bars: the latter work is underway.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Happy to discuss this more, because it's really become critical for a lot of physics exploitation.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Andy</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br class=""></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On 3 May 2018 at 07:14, Hannes Jung <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:hannes.jung@desy.de" target="_blank" class="">hannes.jung@desy.de</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">Dear Rivet developers, Andy et al<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">in the LHC EW working group on jets and vector-bosons we are starting</div><div class="">to compare measurements from the different LHC experiments to see,</div><div class="">whether the measurements are consistent. </div><div class="">We start just doing a comparison using the Rivet plugins with one or two</div><div class="">well defined theory calculation.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">At the moment, the experimental uncertainties (stat and syst) in Rivet are </div><div class="">treated as uncorrelated uncertainties, while for a detailed comparison with theory </div><div class="">also the correlations and the different correlated systematic uncertainties</div><div class="">should be treated.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Is there already some discussion under the Rivet developers, to include those</div><div class="">uncertainties, or if not, would you be interested to join the discussion in our</div><div class="">working group on how to consistently define the correlation matrices between the</div><div class="">experiments, such that they can be used also within Rivet ?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We will have a first meeting of the Jets + Bosons WG on Friday, tomorrow:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://indico.cern.ch/event/721044/" target="_blank" class="">https://indico.cern.ch/event/<wbr class="">721044/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Your participation would be very welcome </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Hannes</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""> <span class="m_996104146479381401Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;border-spacing:0px"><span class="m_996104146479381401Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span class="m_996104146479381401Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class=""><span class="m_996104146479381401Apple-style-span" style="font-size:12px">******************************<wbr class="">******************************<wbr class="">***********</span></div></div></span></div><span class="m_996104146479381401Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span class="m_996104146479381401Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class=""><span class="m_996104146479381401Apple-style-span" style="font-size:12px"><div class="">Hannes Jung </div><div class="">Email: <a href="mailto:Hannes.Jung@desy.de" target="_blank" class="">Hannes.Jung@desy.de</a> </div><div class="">mobile :+49 40 8998 93741</div><div class=""><a href="http://www.desy.de/~jung" target="_blank" class="">http://www.desy.de/~jung</a> </div><div class="">Tel: +49 (0) 40 8998 3741 </div><div class="">Fax: +49 (0) 40 8994 3741</div></span></div></div></span><span class="m_996104146479381401Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class=""><span class="m_996104146479381401Apple-style-span" style="font-size:12px"><div class="">DESY, CMS 01B/02.213</div><div class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Notkestr.85&entry=gmail&source=g" class="">Notkestr.85</a>, 22603 Hamburg, FRG </div><div class="">******************************<wbr class="">******************************<wbr class="">***********</div><br class="m_996104146479381401Apple-interchange-newline"></span></div></div></span><br class="m_996104146479381401Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="m_996104146479381401Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div></span></span><br class="m_996104146479381401Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Dr Andy Buckley, Lecturer / Royal Society University Research Fellow<br class="">Particle Physics Expt Group, University of Glasgow<br class=""></div> </div> </div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class=""> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; 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color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><div class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><div class="">Hannes Jung </div><div class="">Email: <a href="mailto:Hannes.Jung@desy.de" class="">Hannes.Jung@desy.de</a> </div><div class="">mobile :+49 40 8998 93741</div><div class=""><a href="http://www.desy.de/~jung" class="">http://www.desy.de/~jung</a> </div><div class="">Tel: +49 (0) 40 8998 3741 </div><div class="">Fax: +49 (0) 40 8994 3741</div></span></div></div></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; 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