[Rivet] Upcoming paper, and rivet routines from CMS SMP-12-019 (jet mass measurement in dijet and V+jet events)

[Hendrik Hoeth]

Hi Sal,

really: either is fine.

Hendrik

Thus spake Salvatore Rappoccio (rappoccio at gmail.com):

> Hi, Folks,
> 
> Coming back to this : what's the ultimate decision here? We really
> need something without delay. One routine, or two? Yes, there's no
> fundamental objections either way, but if no one will use it if it is
> in one routine, then we're going through a bit of a colossal effort
> for very small payoff, which no one wants to see, of course.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Sal
> 
> 
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Andy Buckley <andy.buckley at cern.ch> wrote:
> > Hi Albert,
> >
> > Sorry for the delayed reply -- I was on holiday after Boost and catching
> > up with work while wading through 3000 emails has taken some time!
> >
> > I think the decision on whether we can accept it depends on how
> > maintainable and portable the implementation is: if the decision on
> > which histograms to fill is made by looking inside the HepMC record
> > internals to classify a "hard process" then I would *really* prefer that
> > it be split, since avoiding such features is precisely what Rivet is
> > designed to avoid/discourage! (And we would then be responsible for
> > maintaining/fixing it when that check doesn't work for some new
> > generator in the future.)
> >
> > But if the behaviour is much safer than that, then it should be fine...
> > it's your call, but if you can show me a bit of example code or describe
> > how it currently works then I'll let you know.
> >
> > Typically the useful form of measurement data is corrected back to
> > particle level to allow comparison to particular classes of hard event
> > type, so for e.g. the CDF combined jet/Drell-Yan UE measurement it made
> > most sense to split the analysis into two, one for each kind of matrix
> > element -- obviously it wouldn't make sense to mix QCD and DY matrix
> > elements in a generator run: you'd never get any events from the latter!
> > But I don't know exactly what situation you are trying to handle.
> >
> > Sorry to not give a definite answer from the available info: there's no
> > *fundamental* objection either way, but we will need to maintain the
> > code ~forever and it does need to be *usable*, otherwise what's the point?!
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Andy
> >
> >
> > On 21/08/13 09:23, Albert Knutsson wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Andy,
> >>
> >> I think it is great that you accept more than one plugin/paper.
> >>
> >> Previously I was told that the rule was one plugin per publication.
> >> Therefore, I had already asked the plugin authors to make it that way for
> >> this CMS analysis. Would you still accept it please, or do you want us to
> >> split the files again? The plugin is essentially ready, just need one last
> >> iteration before posting it here.
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance!
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Albert, Lars, Sara
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 8/16/13 8:24 PM, Salvatore Rappoccio wrote:
> >>> Hi, Andy,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks a lot for the quick response! We will work very hard in the
> >>> coming week(s) to get this out the door.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Sal
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Andy Buckley <andy.buckley at cern.ch>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Yes, apologies that this wasn't clear. The "normal" situation is that
> >>>> there is one analysis code per paper, because typically there is only
> >>>> one process/topology type, but that rule is not absolute.
> >>>>
> >>>> The existence proof for this "split" analysis code is CDF's last
> >>>> underlying event paper which was combined to cover both the QCD jet and
> >>>> Drell-Yan event selections: this is in Rivet as the two analyses
> >>>> CDF_2010_S8591881_QCD and CDF_2010_S8591881_DY. Using a similar naming
> >>>> scheme for your analysis would be ideal... and of course ask us
> >>>> (rivet at projects.hepforge.org) if you've got any questions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best wishes,
> >>>> Andy
> >>>>
> >>>> PS. I've included Lars Sonnenschein in the CC, as I think he has
> >>>> recently replaced Albert as the CMS Rivet contact.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 16/08/13 19:09, Salvatore Rappoccio wrote:
> >>>>> Hi, All,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There was some discussion at the BOOST workshop yesterday about this
> >>>>> measurement's Rivet implementation. One thing that came up was that
> >>>>> there need *not* be a one-to-one paper-to-routine mapping and that
> >>>>> several routines can be made out of one paper. I think this would have
> >>>>> helped enormously in this particular case, and having several
> >>>>> topologies mapped into one routine has slowed this down tremendously.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the future, I would suggest that the CMS requirements change, and
> >>>>> we allow for a routine for any given topology.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the short term, we need Nhan's final implementation with the
> >>>>> current "multiple topologies" implementation, which will be
> >>>>> forthcoming soon.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Sal
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 2:18 AM, Albert Knutsson
> >>>>> <albert.knutsson at cern.ch> wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi Salvatore et al,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> thanks for your work with writing the rivet plugin.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Here are some things that come to my mind:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> * Please use rivet 1.8.2 it is available in CMSSW_5_3_9 and
> >>>>>> CMSSW_6_2_0_pre2
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> * It looks like you are missing the .aida, .info and .plot files.
> >>>>>> Examples you find here:
> >>>>>> /afs/cern.ch/sw/lcg/external/MCGenerators_hepmc2.06.08/rivet/1.8.1/share/sources/data/anainfo/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> /afs/cern.ch/sw/lcg/external/MCGenerators_hepmc2.06.08/rivet/1.8.1/share/sources/data/plotinfo/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> /afs/cern.ch/sw/lcg/external/MCGenerators_hepmc2.06.08/rivet/1.8.1/share/sources/data/refdata/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> * Please also try take a look at Rivet coding conventions and the
> >>>>>> feed back
> >>>>>> from the rivet developers:
> >>>>>> https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/CMS/Rivet#General_feedback_to_CMS_from_the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://projects.hepforge.org/rivet/trac/wiki/CodingStyleGuide
> >>>>>> (The rivet developers are very picky.)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> * For the validation CMS needs some validation plots. That is the
> >>>>>> out put
> >>>>>> from rivet compare to the data.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There are more info on the our rivet twiki about all this.
> >>>>>> https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/CMS/Rivet
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Once you feel ready please send the files and plots to me and I
> >>>>>> will do some
> >>>>>> tests.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We can also discuss on skype/vidyo if you need some more
> >>>>>> guidance/help.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>> Albert
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 3/15/13 5:52 PM, Salvatore Rappoccio wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi, Hannes,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks a lot! Albert, I'll follow the instructions.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>> Sal
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Hannes Jung <hannes.jung at cern.ch>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dear Salvatore et al
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think Albert Knutsson (in cc) is the CMS responsible for Rivet.
> >>>>>> He makes sure that the routines satisfy the standards and are properly
> >>>>>> validated. So I think it is best to get in contact with him and follow
> >>>>>> the advice on the CMS Twiki
> >>>>>> https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/CMS/Rivet
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>> Hannes
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 15.03.2013, at 17:44, Salvatore Rappoccio wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi, All,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We (at CMS) have completed a measurement of the jet mass in dijet and
> >>>>>> V+jet events. We have a Rivet routine for the dijet analysis already
> >>>>>> done (attached) and the V+jets in the works. We will have the data
> >>>>>> uploaded to HEPData very soon.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What are the steps we need to do in order to get this analysis
> >>>>>> "riveted"?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> Sal, Nhan, Kalanand, David for CMS
> >>>>>> <MC_JETSTRUCTURE-1.cc>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Rivet mailing list
> >>>>>> Rivet at projects.hepforge.org
> >>>>>> http://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ***********************************************************************
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hannes Jung
> >>>>>> Email: Hannes.Jung at desy.de
> >>>>>> mobile :+49 40 8998 93741
> >>>>>> http://www.desy.de/~jung
> >>>>>> Tel: +49 (0) 40 8998 3741
> >>>>>> Fax: +49 (0) 40 8994 3741
> >>>>>> DESY, CMS 01B/02.213
> >>>>>> Notkestr.85, 22603 Hamburg, FRG
> >>>>>> ***********************************************************************
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Rivet mailing list
> >>>>> Rivet at projects.hepforge.org
> >>>>> http://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Dr Andy Buckley, Royal Society University Research Fellow
> >>>> Particle Physics Expt Group, University of Glasgow / PH Dept, CERN
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr Andy Buckley, Royal Society University Research Fellow
> > Particle Physics Expt Group, University of Glasgow / PH Dept, CERN
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