[Rivet] MC plots - Xi+/- and Omega+/- pt spectra

[michelangelo mangano]

hello andy, why don't we try to organize a few-day rivet-school? If well planned this could have a big impact. One should select proper dates, with ample warning, giving the opportunity to the physics groups in alice, cms and lhcb to identify specific analyses to be used as guinea pigs for the students, andto build up a team of potential "rivet experts" in each experiment. In other words, one must try to stimulate a formal participation of the experiments, rather than teh participation of curious individuals. We should also resurrect the old idea of building within Genser or SFT the sufficient expertise to provide user support and advice, beyond what the rivet team can do. 
The LPCC can help in all of these directions, offering per diem to rivet members who can spend time at cern providing service work (tutorials, schools,  sharing expertise with genser/sft, ...), helping with the logistics of setting up the school, pushing for or directly providing resources to genser for rivet-related work, etc.etc.

so just let  me know if there is anything we can do to help.

bests, michelangelo


Michelangelo Mangano                        tel: ++41-22-767 2820 
4-2.046, PH-TH Department,                fax ++41-22-766 8676 
CERN                                                    cell: +41 79 8184882
385 Route de Meyrin,                           cell: +39 3201493070
1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland               AIM: michelangelo.mangano at mac.com
http://mlm.home.cern.ch/mlm/





On Jun 2, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Andy Buckley wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> Sorry for the late reply, I thought I should clarify that:
> 
> a) we're very interested in having these analyses in Rivet and can help with implementing them;
> 
> b) yes, I said *help*! We don't have anything like the manpower or the familiarity with the experiment(s) and analysis details to implement all the interesting LHC (and other) analyses. So this is something where we absolutely rely on the experiments to provide the Rivet analysis codes corresponding to published experimental analyses.
> 
> ATLAS has done rather well on this, due to active encouragement from physics coordinators, while CMS and LHCb have yet to supply any code. ALICE has supplied analyses for minimum bias studies, which is cool, but of course there are many more of interest. We are very happy to help out both with personal code issues and with tutorials for the collaborations if there is interest (we have done these for ATLAS and LHCb).
> 
> We are very keen to get good coverage of the LHC analyses in Rivet (and hence mcplots), so please do get in touch. Perhaps the mcplots team could also help out with implementing missing analyses which would improve the site?
> 
> Best wishes,
> Andy
> 
> 
> On 28/03/11 18:48, Peter Skands wrote:
>> Hi Boris,
>> 
>> Wonderful. The first people to contact with a new Rivet implementation
>> for LHC data are the Rivet authors, that I am also cc'ing here. They
>> periodically release new Rivet versions with new analyses that we can
>> then pick up and display on mcplots. There is a small amount of work
>> involved also in the latter (basically we need, in addition, some HTML
>> and LaTeX names for the observables and cuts, that we use to populate
>> the menus and plots on the site, but this is really minimal and we can
>> return to that once a Rivet analysis is there).
>> 
>> @ Rivet authors: the context is ALICE and CMS identified-particle
>> measurements of Xi and Omega baryons, that Boris and Antonin wanted to
>> see how they could get on mcplots, so I pointed them to what would be
>> needed, the first being a HepMC-based Rivet analysis (the data is
>> already in HepData).
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Peter
>> 
>> On 3/28/11 6:38 PM, Boris Hippolyte wrote:
>>> Hi Peter,
>>> the points at 900 GeV were already sent to hepdata;
>>> we'll work on providing the function and try to run some
>>> generators with Rivet locally then send you (or someone
>>> else ?) the function.
>>> Best regards,
>>> --B.
>>> 
>>> On Mar 28, 2011, at 6:29 PM, Peter Skands wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Antonin,
>>>> 
>>>> That sounds encouraging. Rivet is an extremely useful tool for
>>>> generator validation and tuning. Only two things are needed:
>>>> 
>>>> 1) providing the (particle-level-corrected) data to the HepData
>>>> repository, which Rivet uses for the experimental data points. (This
>>>> is basically already default at the LHC, as far as I know.)
>>>> 
>>>> 2) providing a function or routine that encodes the corresponding
>>>> analysis as it would be run on a HepMC output file from a Monte
>>>> Carlo. Since all Monte Carlos basically are able to provide HepMC
>>>> output files, Rivet is then able to run any Monte Carlo and compare
>>>> it directly to the experimental data.
>>>> 
>>>> All we really do on mcplots is give a graphical front end to this,
>>>> showing as many Rivet plots as we can, for as many generators as we
>>>> can manage to implement, but as you see, basically anything that is
>>>> in HepData and any generator that can provide HepMC output can be in
>>>> the game. The only step inbetween is a function that represents the
>>>> experimental analysis as it would be run on a HepMC file. Also, the
>>>> Rivet authors are quite responsive if we need help, especially in the
>>>> mcplots context, as we have already provided some amount of
>>>> validation and bug fixes for Rivet in the process of setting up the
>>>> site.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Peter
>>>> 
>>>> On 3/28/11 6:11 PM, Antonin Maire (IPHC) wrote:
>>>>> Hi Peter,
>>>>> 
>>>>> thanks for this really prompt answer.
>>>>> At the moment, I would guess the data I point to are not Rivet based.
>>>>> But before answering further, I would need to understand what is
>>>>> hiden behind
>>>>> Rivet.
>>>>> I have found 2 links browsing from the MC plots page :
>>>>> - http://projects.hepforge.org/rivet/ - source code
>>>>> - http://arxiv.org/abs/1003.0694 - Rivet manual
>>>>> 
>>>>> I will discuss this with Boris.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Antonin
>>>>> 
>>>>> Peter Skands wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks for pointing this out - mcplots is definitely intended as a
>>>>>> resource
>>>>>> for the LHC experiments, and the identified-particle spectra are,
>>>>>> as you
>>>>>> clearly already know, quite important to constrain certain aspects
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> models. That said, yes, it does take time and resources to add
>>>>>> distributions,
>>>>>> but to help with this the LPCC at CERN is actually offering some
>>>>>> limited
>>>>>> support for people, e.g. from within the experiments, to spend time
>>>>>> with us to
>>>>>> add specific things. Since we are entirely based on the Rivet tool,
>>>>>> the first
>>>>>> order of business is that the analyses need to be implemented in
>>>>>> Rivet. From
>>>>>> there, the step to have them appear on mcplots is very short. So
>>>>>> first I
>>>>>> should ask you whether the analyses you point to are available in
>>>>>> Rivet? If
>>>>>> not, perhaps someone from ALICE and CMS could be identified who
>>>>>> could help,
>>>>>> keeping the possibility of LPCC support in mind, to implement them,
>>>>>> and in the
>>>>>> process add them to mcplots?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 3/28/11 5:41 PM, Antonin Maire (IPHC) wrote:
>>>>>>> Good afternoon,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have a question about the site MC plots.
>>>>>>> I would like to know if I could ask for other species to be computed
>>>>>>> regarding the identified pt spectra.
>>>>>>> I have in mind the Xi- and Xi+, Omega- and Omega+
>>>>>>> for pp 7 TeV (and potentially 900 GeV)
>>>>>>> in |y|< 0.5
>>>>>>> to be compared with :
>>>>>>> - CMS results (900 GeV + 7 TeV) : http://arxiv.org/abs/1102.4282
>>>>>>> - ALICE results (900 GeV) : http://arxiv.org/abs/1012.3257
>>>>>>> (The data points do not seem available on HEPdata, yet.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Note I do not know how much time/work it would cost to produce such
>>>>>>> plots, I would perfectly understand this is not your priority.
>>>>>>> I am just asking in case it is trivial - and of some interest -
>>>>>>> for you
>>>>>>> to produce them.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Antonin
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ps
>>>>>>> On the Xi- and Xi+
>>>>>>> (http://mcplots.cern.ch/?query=plots,pp%2Fppbar,uemb-soft,Xim_pt,,)
>>>>>>> the STAR reference seems to be mixed with the pion, kaon proton
>>>>>>> reference :
>>>>>>> the reference http://arxiv.org/pdf/nucl-ex/0601033v2 is quoted
>>>>>>> while I
>>>>>>> think it may rather be http://arxiv.org/pdf/nucl-ex/0607033
>>>>>>> = http://inspirebeta.net/record/722757?ln=en
>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> HIPPOLYTE Boris B214 hippolyt at in2p3.fr
>>> Département de Recherches Subatomiques
>>> Institut Pluridisciplinaire Hubert Curien
>>> 23, rue du Loess Bat20 BP28 phone: +33(0)388106646
>>> F-67037 Strasbourg cedex2 fax: +33(0)388106614
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr Andy Buckley
> SUPA Advanced Research Fellow
> Particle Physics Experiment Group, University of Edinburgh
> 
> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>