[Rivet] Upcoming paper, and rivet routines from CMS SMP-12-019 (jet mass measurement in dijet and V+jet events)

[Maxime Gouzevitch]

  Hi,

I'm fine with 2 separated RIVET routines. For the nomenclature purposes 
we can see it later.

  Cheers

Le 23/09/2013 12:53, Andy Buckley a écrit :
> Indeed, we can maintain the code in either form, but I think it is a CMS
> decision on whether or not it is more usable (i.e. will be used!) if
> split apart. For example, merging of histograms may be harder to
> organise if e.g. the dijet plots are all empty (or worse, incorrectly
> filled) when running with V+jets, and vice versa.
>
> Just to keep things simple, and to avoid you having to put in e.g. a Z
> veto for the dijets just to avoid filling plots incorrectly -- there is
> no 100% robust way to determine the process type from an event record --
> my bias is toward splitting into two analyses. But I've not seen the code.
>
> I think if written as one analysis it would most likely always have to
> be run as if it was two separate ones, maybe with awkward technicalities
> needed to avoid the accidental overlaps. Since the dijet/V
> cross-sections are so different, you're never going to run a generator
> on both process types at the same time. In fact, it's pretty much
> exactly the same pair of processes as were split into two analyses for
> CDF's underlying event paper, and that has worked well. My $0.02.
>
> Andy
>
>
> On 23/09/13 09:04, Hendrik Hoeth wrote:
>> Hi Sal,
>>
>> really: either is fine.
>>
>> Hendrik
>>
>> Thus spake Salvatore Rappoccio (rappoccio at gmail.com):
>>
>>> Hi, Folks,
>>>
>>> Coming back to this : what's the ultimate decision here? We really
>>> need something without delay. One routine, or two? Yes, there's no
>>> fundamental objections either way, but if no one will use it if it is
>>> in one routine, then we're going through a bit of a colossal effort
>>> for very small payoff, which no one wants to see, of course.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Sal
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Andy Buckley <andy.buckley at cern.ch> wrote:
>>>> Hi Albert,
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the delayed reply -- I was on holiday after Boost and catching
>>>> up with work while wading through 3000 emails has taken some time!
>>>>
>>>> I think the decision on whether we can accept it depends on how
>>>> maintainable and portable the implementation is: if the decision on
>>>> which histograms to fill is made by looking inside the HepMC record
>>>> internals to classify a "hard process" then I would *really* prefer that
>>>> it be split, since avoiding such features is precisely what Rivet is
>>>> designed to avoid/discourage! (And we would then be responsible for
>>>> maintaining/fixing it when that check doesn't work for some new
>>>> generator in the future.)
>>>>
>>>> But if the behaviour is much safer than that, then it should be fine...
>>>> it's your call, but if you can show me a bit of example code or describe
>>>> how it currently works then I'll let you know.
>>>>
>>>> Typically the useful form of measurement data is corrected back to
>>>> particle level to allow comparison to particular classes of hard event
>>>> type, so for e.g. the CDF combined jet/Drell-Yan UE measurement it made
>>>> most sense to split the analysis into two, one for each kind of matrix
>>>> element -- obviously it wouldn't make sense to mix QCD and DY matrix
>>>> elements in a generator run: you'd never get any events from the latter!
>>>> But I don't know exactly what situation you are trying to handle.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to not give a definite answer from the available info: there's no
>>>> *fundamental* objection either way, but we will need to maintain the
>>>> code ~forever and it does need to be *usable*, otherwise what's the point?!
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 21/08/13 09:23, Albert Knutsson wrote:
>>>>> Hi Andy,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it is great that you accept more than one plugin/paper.
>>>>>
>>>>> Previously I was told that the rule was one plugin per publication.
>>>>> Therefore, I had already asked the plugin authors to make it that way for
>>>>> this CMS analysis. Would you still accept it please, or do you want us to
>>>>> split the files again? The plugin is essentially ready, just need one last
>>>>> iteration before posting it here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Albert, Lars, Sara
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/16/13 8:24 PM, Salvatore Rappoccio wrote:
>>>>>> Hi, Andy,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks a lot for the quick response! We will work very hard in the
>>>>>> coming week(s) to get this out the door.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Sal
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Andy Buckley <andy.buckley at cern.ch>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, apologies that this wasn't clear. The "normal" situation is that
>>>>>>> there is one analysis code per paper, because typically there is only
>>>>>>> one process/topology type, but that rule is not absolute.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The existence proof for this "split" analysis code is CDF's last
>>>>>>> underlying event paper which was combined to cover both the QCD jet and
>>>>>>> Drell-Yan event selections: this is in Rivet as the two analyses
>>>>>>> CDF_2010_S8591881_QCD and CDF_2010_S8591881_DY. Using a similar naming
>>>>>>> scheme for your analysis would be ideal... and of course ask us
>>>>>>> (rivet at projects.hepforge.org) if you've got any questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS. I've included Lars Sonnenschein in the CC, as I think he has
>>>>>>> recently replaced Albert as the CMS Rivet contact.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 16/08/13 19:09, Salvatore Rappoccio wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi, All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There was some discussion at the BOOST workshop yesterday about this
>>>>>>>> measurement's Rivet implementation. One thing that came up was that
>>>>>>>> there need *not* be a one-to-one paper-to-routine mapping and that
>>>>>>>> several routines can be made out of one paper. I think this would have
>>>>>>>> helped enormously in this particular case, and having several
>>>>>>>> topologies mapped into one routine has slowed this down tremendously.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the future, I would suggest that the CMS requirements change, and
>>>>>>>> we allow for a routine for any given topology.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the short term, we need Nhan's final implementation with the
>>>>>>>> current "multiple topologies" implementation, which will be
>>>>>>>> forthcoming soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Sal
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 2:18 AM, Albert Knutsson
>>>>>>>> <albert.knutsson at cern.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Salvatore et al,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks for your work with writing the rivet plugin.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here are some things that come to my mind:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Please use rivet 1.8.2 it is available in CMSSW_5_3_9 and
>>>>>>>>> CMSSW_6_2_0_pre2
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * It looks like you are missing the .aida, .info and .plot files.
>>>>>>>>> Examples you find here:
>>>>>>>>> /afs/cern.ch/sw/lcg/external/MCGenerators_hepmc2.06.08/rivet/1.8.1/share/sources/data/anainfo/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /afs/cern.ch/sw/lcg/external/MCGenerators_hepmc2.06.08/rivet/1.8.1/share/sources/data/plotinfo/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /afs/cern.ch/sw/lcg/external/MCGenerators_hepmc2.06.08/rivet/1.8.1/share/sources/data/refdata/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Please also try take a look at Rivet coding conventions and the
>>>>>>>>> feed back
>>>>>>>>> from the rivet developers:
>>>>>>>>> https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/CMS/Rivet#General_feedback_to_CMS_from_the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://projects.hepforge.org/rivet/trac/wiki/CodingStyleGuide
>>>>>>>>> (The rivet developers are very picky.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * For the validation CMS needs some validation plots. That is the
>>>>>>>>> out put
>>>>>>>>> from rivet compare to the data.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are more info on the our rivet twiki about all this.
>>>>>>>>> https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/CMS/Rivet
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Once you feel ready please send the files and plots to me and I
>>>>>>>>> will do some
>>>>>>>>> tests.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We can also discuss on skype/vidyo if you need some more
>>>>>>>>> guidance/help.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Albert
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/13 5:52 PM, Salvatore Rappoccio wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi, Hannes,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot! Albert, I'll follow the instructions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Sal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Hannes Jung <hannes.jung at cern.ch>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear Salvatore et al
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think Albert Knutsson (in cc) is the CMS responsible for Rivet.
>>>>>>>>> He makes sure that the routines satisfy the standards and are properly
>>>>>>>>> validated. So I think it is best to get in contact with him and follow
>>>>>>>>> the advice on the CMS Twiki
>>>>>>>>> https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/viewauth/CMS/Rivet
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>> Hannes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 15.03.2013, at 17:44, Salvatore Rappoccio wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi, All,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We (at CMS) have completed a measurement of the jet mass in dijet and
>>>>>>>>> V+jet events. We have a Rivet routine for the dijet analysis already
>>>>>>>>> done (attached) and the V+jets in the works. We will have the data
>>>>>>>>> uploaded to HEPData very soon.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What are the steps we need to do in order to get this analysis
>>>>>>>>> "riveted"?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Sal, Nhan, Kalanand, David for CMS
>>>>>>>>> <MC_JETSTRUCTURE-1.cc>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Rivet mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Rivet at projects.hepforge.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ***********************************************************************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hannes Jung
>>>>>>>>> Email: Hannes.Jung at desy.de
>>>>>>>>> mobile :+49 40 8998 93741
>>>>>>>>> http://www.desy.de/~jung
>>>>>>>>> Tel: +49 (0) 40 8998 3741
>>>>>>>>> Fax: +49 (0) 40 8994 3741
>>>>>>>>> DESY, CMS 01B/02.213
>>>>>>>>> Notkestr.85, 22603 Hamburg, FRG
>>>>>>>>> ***********************************************************************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Rivet mailing list
>>>>>>>> Rivet at projects.hepforge.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Dr Andy Buckley, Royal Society University Research Fellow
>>>>>>> Particle Physics Expt Group, University of Glasgow / PH Dept, CERN
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dr Andy Buckley, Royal Society University Research Fellow
>>>> Particle Physics Expt Group, University of Glasgow / PH Dept, CERN
>>> _______________________________________________
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>